- Enfield No4 Mk1 Stock
- British Enfield No4 Mk1 Serial Numbers
- Savage Enfield No4 Mk1 Serial Numbers
- Enfield No4 Mk1 Serial Numbers
- British Enfield No4 Mk1 Serial Numbers
- Bsa Shirley Enfield No4 Mk1 Serial Numbers
Lee enfield no4 mk2 serial numbers. JMOPM Blog Uncategorized lee enfield no4 mk2 serial numbers. August 29, 2020 0.
- When inspecting your rifle and comparing marks with reference sources, be careful not to confuse date marks, or 'private view marks', with inspectors marks, which usually carry the factory identification, e.g., 'E' for Enfield, under the sovereign's crown, below which is the inspector's identification number; usually two figures such as '39'.
- Aug 28, 2013 This surplus marking was put on after the war. I (T) Lee-Enfield sniper rifle L30429 Holland and Holland’s wartime code of “S51” marking under side of butt. Serial number 28557. Blue “B” “Bloomed” mark. The matching rifle shows the M47C 1944 rifle SN K33577.
- No.4 Mk1 Date and serial questions. Following my local gun show today, I am now a proud owner of a gorgeous No.4 Mk.1 rifle. I am, however, having a bit of trouble working out the rifle's history. The rifle only has 4 digits in the serial number, and a PF prefix. The receiver markings have been painted-over at some point, and are difficult to read.
- My Enfield is marked as follows: No. 4 Mk2 A12914 F 57 FTR I know that FTR stands for 'Factory Thorough Repair', that F stands for Fasakerley and that '57' indicates that it was FTR'ed in 1957. However, the serial number doesn't conform to Ian Skennertons serial number/ prefix/suffix for No.
- Hey guys, I just recently was given by my boss a Lee Enfield NO.4 MK1 303 British that I am trying to gather all the info about. The serial number is DA22567A, above the serial number it says NO.4 MK1 F (FTR) that is all the markings I can really see on the gun and I was wondering what year the.
- Recently acquired a Lee Enfield Mark4 1/2.303 ser # 52Y20xxx in good condition, & a early Lee Enfield SMLE.303, ser# 21xxx, Does Anyone Know the.
Lithgow bolt action.303 rifle, Model Smle III 1942, Serial number 35176. Rego 711649990.(Please note No bolt) Rego 711649990.(Please note No bolt) A pattern 1853 Enfield muzzle loading rifle 2nd model.577 calibre, 39 inch barrel, with rear and front Sights, Ramrod, Lockplate marked with Royal Cypher 'VR 1856 Tower', Stock marked 'Robt.
Navy Arms Company is making and selling a lot of these, and they usually describe them (albeit in the fine print) as 'replicas' or 'constructed of original No. 4 Enfields' or some such. SARCO and SOG (among others) are also marketing these (or similar) rifles for comparable prices, again with fair--or at least technically honest--advertising.
The problem arises when these aftermarket replicas pass through several hands and wind up offered for sale at a gun show or in a pawn shop. Typically, the advertising (such as it was) gets lost, the price gets jacked up, and the seller claims (maybe because he believes it) that the piece really is a long-lost treasure. A lot of people are getting burned by these knock-offs, and an even greater number are just plain confused.
Here’s our take on the various 'bargains' that have been showing up lately.
No. 1 Mk III* (Lithgow - 'New')
Often advertised as “collector grade”or “mint - unfired” or “unissued” andselling for $200 and up.
Watch out for these! Quite a few “new Lithgow” rifles have been built just within the last few years from spare parts bought from the Australian government. The parts are new, and the rifles were never issued--but they aren’t Lithgow factory rifles by any stretch of the imagination! They’re recently-built parts guns.
It is possible (though not likely) that some Lithgow-manufactured rifles with late-1945 (or later) dates were kept in storage and subsequently surplused out in unfired or unissued condition. Such rifles would have 5-digit serial numbers with either an “E” or an “F” serial number prefix, and the serial number would be stamped on the rear of the bolt handle and on the bottom of the fore-end, as well as on the receiver ring. Neither the nose cap nor the bottom of the backsight leaf will carry a different serial number on these rifles. Also, legitimate factory rifles will have 1/4-inch square brass or copper recoil plates installed on the fore-ends where the sear boss bears against the wood. These plates will be attached with small brass wood screws.
If you find a “new” Lithgow with a 1943 or 1944 date, be highly suspicious. This was the height of the war, and virtually all rifles manufactured were issued. If you find the receiver marked with a “JJ CO NY NY” import stamp, assume it’s a parts gun unless you have clear evidence to the contrary. (Many “new Lithgow” parts guns appear to have been assembled on receivers imported by John Jovino & Co.) If you find a 4-digit serial number with no prefix letter and an “A” suffix, this is clear evidence that it is not a Lithgow factory rifle. If you find different serial numbers on different parts, this is clear evidence that it is a parts gun. And if the recoil plates are missing, it is not only a parts gun--it could be dangerous to shoot. There’s a possibility that the fore-end will be damaged with as few as 20 or 30 round fired.
No. 1 'Tanker Carbine'
Overall length 39-40 inches; 20-21 inch barrel, with fore-endshortened and nose cap moved back. Also called “No. 1 Shortened and Lightened” rifle or “No. 6 Tanker Carbine” or “No. 6 Shortened and Lightened” rifle.
These are probably either aftermarket modifications or outright fakes. The Australian government did experiment with a shortened and lightened No. 1 rifle, but only a hundred prototypes were made. These have grooved fore-ends, lightening flutes on the barrel knox forms, and extensive lightening cuts on the receivers. Also, the Lithgow factory prototypes all have aperture backsights mounted on the charger bridge and solid handguards. All bear “XP” serial number prefixes.
Enfield No4 Mk1 Stock
Some unofficial experimenting was done by a number of unit armourers during WWII in an attempt to create a shortened and lightened version of the No. 1 rifle, and it is possible that a few of these early experiments have survived. The barrels were shortened, and the nose caps were reset, but most retained the barrel-mounted tangent sights. These are historically interesting, but they are not “official” Lithgow factory prototypes.
The easiest way to tell a recent replica from a WWII-vintage experimental model is to remove the nose cap. If you find freshly-cut wood, you know what you have! Also, many of the recent fakes have a hex-nut rather than a standard oblong nose cap nut securing the rear nose cap screw, and the fore-end stud and stud spring are missing.
No. 2A “Tanker” Carbine
Overall length 39-1/2 inches, with a 20-1/2 inch barrel. Fore-end shortened and nose cap moved back.
There ain’t no such thing! There never was. This is strictly an aftermarket modification. Such a shortened version of the Ishapore 2A/2A1 rifle was never even considered by the Indian government--never mind adopted--or by anyone else, for that matter.
British Enfield No4 Mk1 Serial Numbers
No. 4 “Tanker” Carbine
Overall length 39-1/2 inches, with a 20-1/2 inch barrel. Fore-end shortened and nose cap moved back.
As above, there ain’t no such thing. Strictly an aftermarket modification.
No. 4 Shortened and Lightened
Overall length 39-42 inches; 20-23 inch barrel, withfore-end shortened and nose cap moved back.
Lee Enfield Serial Lookup
Probably an aftermarket modification. The Canadian government did experiment with a shortened and lightened No. 4 rifle, and a few dozen prototypes were made; however, these have one-piece stocks! Also, the barrels and receivers were lightened with extensive milling. All were conversions of Long Branch rifles only.
Smle Serial Number Lookup
If you see a two-piece stock or a receiver than doesn’t have any lightening cuts, you have an aftermarket modification or replica. The British version of the shortened and lightened No. 4 rifle is the No. 5 rifle (see below).
No. 4 “Collector Grade”
Savage or Long Branch, often advertised as “new”or “unissued.”
Watch out. It is possible that a legitimate unissued No. 4 rifle will turn up, but it’s not likely. Most of these “collector grade” rifles were arsenal reconditioned somewhere along the line--but somewhere other than Canada or Great Britain (who marked their reconditioned rifles “R” or “FTR”). Look for black enamel or flat black paint on the metal parts--this is a tip-off that the work was done in Pakistan or in South Africa or in some other country. Original No. 4 rifles have an oil-blackened finish (or possibly a blued finish on 1950 or later Long Branch rifles). Also, look for non-British or non-Canadian ownership or acceptance marks.
We have reports of a number of unissued Long Branch rifles re-imported into Canada from Belgium by Districorp. The story is that CAL sold a bunch of No. 4 rifles to the Belgian government in the early 1950s, and that they were kept in storage and never issued. These all have 95L serial numbers and 1950 dates and look quite nice. They are probably the real McCoy. (We’ll look into them further and report as soon as we have additional data.)
Serial Number Database Software
No. 5 “Jungle Carbine”
Overall length 39-1/2 inches; 20-1/2 inch barrel withflash hider. Rubber buttplate; short fore-end.
An honest No. 5 rifle (or “Jungle Carbine”) has lightening flutes cut in the barrel knox form and extensive milling done to the receiver to lighten it. (Take the handguard off and look for the barrel flutes.) Also, an honest No. 5 will be electro-engraved “No5MKI” on the left side of the receiver and will not have “No. 4” stamped or engraved anywhere on it. In addition, an honest No. 5 will bear the proper manufacturer’s code: “(ROF)F” for Fazakerley or “M47C” for BSA-Shirley. Finally, the barrel band will be only 8 inches in front of the receiver ring--rather than 10-3/4 inches as on a No. 4 rifle.
In the 1950s and 1960s, Golden State Arms Co. of Pasadena, California modified quite a few No. 4 rifles by shortening the barrels, adding flash hiders, and shortening the fore-ends. Some were equipped with Fajen or Bishop sporter stocks, as well. These were called various names, such as “No. 4 Jungle Carbine,” or “Santa Fe Mountain Carbine,” or “Mountain Rifle,” but all have “Golden State Arms” and “Santa Fe” roll-stamped on the barrel. Nice aftermarket conversions, but strictly that.
Currently, Navy Arms is doing the same thing with No. 4 rifles and selling them as “No. 5 Jungle Carbines.” At arm’s length they look genuine, but they have standard No. 4 rifle markings and DO NOT have the lightening flutes on the barrel or the lightening cuts on the receiver. These are strictly fakes--or thinly disguised “replicas.”
No. 6 “Jungle Carbine”
Overall length 39-1/2 inches, with 20-1/2 inch barrel andflash hider; brass buttplate.
The Australian No. 6 rifle was officially adopted, but only a couple of hundred prototypes were ever built. These have grooved fore-ends and handguards, and most have receiver-mounted aperture rear sights. All have “XP” serial number prefixes, and the bayonet lug on the flash hider is squared to accept a P1907-type bayonet rather than rounded to accept a No. 4-type bayonet. The handguard is the same length as the fore-end and will be solid for its full length or have an unusual set of backsight protectors on it--sort of like the rear handguard on an SMLE Mk I rifle.
Replicas and fakes abound. Golden State Arms made replicas in the 1950s and 1960s, but these are all marked “Golden State Arms” and “Santa Fe” on the barrel. In the 1970s, Federal Ordnance Company (Fed Ord) made some No. 6 look-alikes built on WWI-vintage Lithgow actions, but these are stamped “Jungle Rifle” on the left side of the receiver. Navy Arms is currently making look-alikes with no special marking and selling them as “No. 6 Jungle Carbines.” Don’t pay a premium for these!
If you see a barrel-mounted tangent sight, the rifle is a fake. If you don’t see lightening flutes on the barrel knox form and lightening cuts in the receiver, the rifle is a fake. If it has a No. 5 flash hider, it’s a fake. If the barrel band is up within a few inches of the flash hider, it’s a fake. (Or a thinly-disguised “replica,” if you must.)
No. 7 “Jungle Carbine”
Shortened version of 2A/2A1 rifle, with flashhider installed.Like the 2A Tanker Carbine, this is strictly an aftermarket modification. There never was a carbine version of the Ishapore 2A/2A1 rifle, and there never was any such thing as a “No. 7 Jungle Carbine.” The Lee-Enfield No. 7 rifle is a .22 caliber training rifle, similar in appearance to a full-size No. 4 rifle, which was made in both Canada and Great Britain in the late 1940s. They are clearly marked as such.
A Final Word
We believe that Navy Arms and others are missing a bet by not labeling their products for what they are. Aftermarket modifications and replicas have been around since the days of Francis Bannerman, and they are an interesting part of the history of military rifles. Bannerman Krags are definitely collectable, and there is a growing interest in Golden State and Fed Ord Enfields--but mainly because they are readily identifiable for what they are.
The problem with the current crop is not just that the marketing borders on deceptive: ten or twenty years from now nobody will be able to tell an honest Navy Arms look-alike from the one-off handiwork of a basement wood butcher. We believe that the aftermarket modifications and even “replicas” would sell just as well if they were labeled as such, and we have no doubt that doing so would save a lot of grief for collectors--both now and in the years to come.
Lee Enfield 303 Serial Numbers
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Yes, of course take it out for the day, and lift its skirts, because this means it not being 'stood up' ..........
................. in a dusty corner of your gun cabinet
See also NOTES ON GUN BARREL PROOF by the LONDON & BIRMINGHAM PROOF HOUSES
Many, but not all, of our pages carry date information on the various rifles illustrated or discussed, where it has been possible to be sure of data. There are a number of methods by which a rifle can be dated, or at least bracketed between certain years of manufacture. For the latter, dates of introduction of military arms can be located within the Government 'List of Changes' (LoCs) as can dates of obsolescence and of modification or upgrade to later marks.
Basic information on these lines is on site from our Chronology of Enfield genre Training Rifles, Adapters & Cartridges.
You may not necessarily find specific date information within the text of particular pages, but often the images of advertisements or catalogue entries contain some dating 'give-away', such as the year in which a particular rifle achieved a notable competition score by someone, but which data is in graphic format and therefore not 'searchable' by a text search engine. Do not briefly glance over a page and assume that the information you require is not there. It may not be immediately obvious, but careful observation may provide you with the information for which you are looking. Such research is a major part of the joy of owning, collecting and shooting classic or historic rifles.
For BSA and Greener rifles view complete catalogues from 1908 to the mid 1930s on our
As far as civilian rifles are concerned, some manufacturers have their own dating systems, with, for example, prefixes or suffixes to serial numbers providing that information. Anschutz target rifles fall into this category, and their system is given on the page for these rifles.
Quite apart from such dating information as we have been able to provide on many of the individual rifle types included on this website, there are other ways in which you may be able to confirm the date of manufacture, or at least the date of proof, of your rifle. Do remember, though, that date information coded with proof and Proof-House inspection, viewing or identification marks, does not necessarily coincide with the date of manufacture. Because many rifles may have been imported or, prior to sale on the civilian market, have only had military proof marks, then dating from the Birmingham or London Proof House marks needs to be treated with a degree of both caution and common sense. All firearms sold to private individuals in the U.K. have, for many years, been legally required to carry proof marks from one or other of the Proof Houses. This is mandatory, in the interests of public and personal safety, and any imported, previously un-proved firearm or 'Sold out of Service' ex-military arm must be so proved. Rifles without modern proof still regularly appear on the market, having lain in store for decades. This is nothing new, and proof-house date marks from years past may still not indicate the rifle's date of manufacture. However, if an estimate of the rifle's age from other sources closely matches the date marks, then you probably have pinned down when it was made within a year or so.
British and Commonwealth Service rifles can sometimes be dated by their serial numbers and prefixes, and the manufacturing works can be identified by manufacturers' coded leter and number marks. The keenest researchers will search manufacturers' records where such are archived or available. Fortunately, many of these scholars make their work available to the public in reference books, and details of a number of the most useful ones are to be found in our Bibliography. It is worth mentioning one or two books in particular from which much data relevant to this website's subject matter can be sought. 'The Broad Arrow', and 'The Lee-Enfield Story by Ian Skennerton, afford many specifics of manufacturers' and unit codes and proof marks, and of rifles of Enfield origin respectively. For B.S.A. Co. civilian production of target and sporting rifles, then purchase a copy of ' B.S.A. - The Golden Century by John Knibbs. The ISBN numbers for these reference books are in the bibliography. Hitherto, John, who worked for the B.S.A. Company for many years and holds most of those records not destroyed in enemy bombing raids on the factories during the War, has been willing to help date a particular B.S.A. product where possible, and charges a fee which is donated to one or other of his chosen charities. It should be borne in mind that there is rarely a better way to find out more about your chosen rifle than buying one of the marque or model specific books authored by someone who has spent much of their life researching the subject. Such a purchase additionally supports such researchers and their work, and is, long term, to the benefit of us all.
When inspecting your rifle and comparing marks with reference sources, be careful not to confuse date marks, or 'private view marks', with inspectors marks, which usually carry the factory identification, e.g., 'E' for Enfield, under the sovereign's crown, below which is the inspector's identification number; usually two figures such as '39'. This is not a date mark, although occasionally the number may coincidentally seem to relate to one's approximate estimate of the rifle's age; it does not.
E
39
Also be aware of the Birmingham Proof and Birmingham View marks - respectively BP and BV - each under a Crown.* With, for example, the BSA Model 15 or BSA Model 12/15 Martini-actioned rifles, the view mark should be visible both on the barrel and on the action body RHS top. With such B.S.A. rifles the Proof mark is only on the barrel (and on the action falling-block), and the third mark on the barrel is the 'NP' mark for Nitro-Proof, also below the crown. Proof , View and Black Powder or Nitro-Proof marks have to be easily visible to, for instance, the purchaser of a firearm. Thus they are usually very obviously stamped on the appropriate pressure-bearing parts where thay can easily be seen. The only exception to this is a comparatively recent situation in which the acquirer of a historically important firearm that may have been re-imported, and hitherto have carried no London or Birmingham proving mark, scan request, when that arm is sent for the necessary proof that, the marks are put out of sight, under woodwork for example, in order that the original appearance of a valuable piece is not spoiled.. However, date marks such as are under discussion and described below, are usually out of sight on the under-side of the barrel, and removal of fore-end furniture may be necessary to find them.
Akin to the longstanding hallmarking system for British silverware, in which letter codes relate to years of manufacture or importation, is an equivalent employed by the British Proof Houses. The problem here is that, unlike silver hallmarking, the Proof House codes were only introduced in 1921 and have been only intermittently applied since then, almost on the whim of the Proof Master incumbent at any particular time. The system ceased to be used during 1941, since there was practically no civilian firearm production for the next five or six years, and, with war-time production levels reaching unprecedented proportions, almost all military proofing was effected within the various manufacturing facilities by Government inspectors. The coding was not reintroduced until 1952. However, such date codes as there are are still useful in dating the many firearms manufactured between the First and Second World Wars, including much output from the Birmingham Small Arms Company ( see also BSA Rifles), as indeed is true post 1952 for those rifles more recently falling into the classic class.
This so-called 'secret' marking system was as follows, with the marks illustrated below applying as indicated. As far as we are aware, all B.S.A. production was proved at Birmingham and the marks should therefore comply with these series.
These marks are also not to be confused with the crossed flags stamp of the miltary proof markings, which may carry similar letter codes identifying the country and/or place of inspection.
From 1921 to 1951 Figure 1 applies, and for firearms proved between mid 1921 and mid 1922 the code letter is A.
Lest they were confused with other characters, I and Q were not utilised, so the date letters to 1941 were as follows
1922/23 - B; 1923/24 - C; 1924/25 - D; 1925/26 - E; 1926/27 - F; 1927/28 - G; 1928/29 - H; 1929/30 - J; 1930/31 - K; 1931/32 - L; 1932/33 - M; 1933/34 - N; 1934/35 - O; 1935/36 - P; 1936/37 - R; 1937/38 - S; 1938/39 - T; 1939/40 - U; 1940/41 - V.
The alphabet was restarted several years post-war in 1950 with A, but now each letter change was made at the beginning of the year.
The mark was modified to that shown in Figure II, with D to the left representing 1953,
and the B to the right identifying the Birmingham Proof House.
The number below identified the inspector.
Thus the year codes have hitherto been understood to be 1950 - A; 1951 - B; 1952 - C; 1953 - D; 1954 - E; 1955 - F; 1956 - G; 1957 - H; 1958 - J; and so on through to 1974 - Z; ................ we also believed that Q was then used in this series for 1965.
However, we have been made aware, by a contributor, of two contemporary rifles, a BSA Mk.II Lightweight Martini International and a BSA Century, that each carry what certainly appears to be the letter 'I' in the left quadrant (as in Fig.II above). This would suggest that 'I' as well as 'Q' was no longer deemed to be ambiguous, as had previously been the case with the Fig.1 stamp configuration. There is therefore an undeniable possibility that year letters after 1958 may each represent dates that should be advanced one year, with 'Z' falling in 1975, although this would then conflict with the 1975 commencement of the next series.
Confusion remains; unless you know differently. Conjecture may suggest that perhaps there was even indecision at the Birmingham Proof House, and only a few rifles were stamped with an 'I' in 1958 before 'J' was substituted, or, a long shot, the 1957 'H' stamps wore out before the end of the year. We may never know the answer, but can meanwhile entertain ourselves dreaming up such explanations.
The two markings are shown below, the International to the left, and Century to the right.
..........
From 1975 a further modification was made to the mark, as in Figure III, with another adjustment soon after to Figure IV.
The date code letters were thus 1975 - A; 1976 - B; 1977 - C; 1978 - D; 1979 - E; 1980 - F.
To give some idea of what you are looking for, the image below shows the mark, as Figure I, on a BSA Model 15 rifle. It is to be found under the barrel just foreward of the receiver, and requires removal of the fore-end woodwork to view. The rule is calibrated in millemetres. It is possibly the diminutive size of this mark, and its usually hidden location, which has led to it being described as 'secret'.
Savage Enfield No4 Mk1 Serial Numbers
In this instance, the code letter is 'M' for 1932-33, indicating that the rifle was manufacture,
or at least proved, between July 1932 and June 1933.
Note that this is a pre-WWII rifle. Post-War rifles such as the BSA Model 12/15 will not carry this mark.
Date marks for the London Proof House did not commence until 1972 and are therefore of limited value in dating classic rifles.
They were literal marks in the form
LP
72
* A 1930s BSA brochure for their rifles included a page relating to proof of same.
Click the image to see the full catalogue
See also NOTES ON GUN BARREL PROOF by the LONDON & BIRMINGHAM PROOF HOUSES
Enfield No4 Mk1 Serial Numbers
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British Enfield No4 Mk1 Serial Numbers
Bsa Shirley Enfield No4 Mk1 Serial Numbers
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